Mahogany Misfit - Wednesday, July 15, 2009 at 05:59PM - 21 said something... - filed under Sex, Women's Issues Email Article I'd Like To "Give It UP"-side Someone's Head
A while back, I was involved in an "internet discussion", regarding female sexuality, male respect for female sexual expression, etc., and wanted to express my utter dismay over the term "giving it up", in reference to the act of sex.
More specifically, my dismay over the fact that the term "giving it up", is ONLY applied to a women's role in a sexual exchange.
We need to expunge this term from our vocabularies.
First of all, this verbiage implies that I, as a woman, have relinquished something. I "gave" something away which would imply that it is "gone" and I am now "out" something. Does that make sense? The very language puts me, the woman, at some sort of imaginary sexual disadvantage and smack dab into the role of "victim".
Victim to a man and his powerful ways OMG! I am now rendered helpless after giving "it" up!
Um no.
A woman who is empowered in her sexual choices, has sex when she chooses, with whom she chooses, and demonstrates a healthy sexuality is not "giving something up" by having sex. She's engaging in an act and receiving pleasure from it.
Since the term is only applied to women (and usually scornfully), by default, it falsely empowers men. How many men have you met who believe that when they have sex with a woman, they have somehow "gotten over" on her? Oh yes, the old "I got what I wanted and now I'm more of a man THAN EVER!!!11!!" attitude.
Um, chances are she got what she wanted too. Dumbass.
It's like, never mind that she's the one who may have seduced him and then sent his ass home (ahem, not that I'm referring to myself here or anything like that). Many men still see sex as some sort of game and deem themselves the defacto victor each and every time they engage in intercourse with a woman.
Their ego and automatic assumption of "power" is really what's most disturbing and sad. They really set themselves up for disappointment by thinking this is the case ALL THE TIME.
*Honestly I think this is one of the reasons I've had so many issues in my sexual relationships with men... because they plunged into an affair with me believing they had some sort of mythical "upper hand" over our "arrangement" (simply because men often think they have the upper hand in everything related to sex) and when I didn't bow to their program, they couldn't deal with me anymore.*
What's worse though is, many WOMEN operate using this same faulty, chauvinistic logic. They defend and excuse this line of thinking and feel that women who have sex "early", are somehow not worthy of basic respect. It's VERY troubling and at it's worst can be labeled as a form of slut shaming.
For instance, the woman I was speaking with stated: "Men don't respect women who give it up too soon, even my brothers admit they look at women differently after early sex."
The reason I LOVE quotes like this is because I've heard this logic a MILLION times, from men and women alike.
Uh, who are THEY to look at someone "differently" for something they also engaged in?
Fucksticks.
The very notion reeks of entitlement and hypocrisy.
The kind that only a chauvinist would openly advertise (yes, women can be chauvinists).
The analogy that comes to mind for me is that this is akin to Jeffrey Dahmer judging Ted Bundy for killing people.
Positively absurd right?
So, I figured I'd just pen a quick little blurb for every chauvinistic man I've ever heard, or read who expresses a similar sentiment. Who believes, by virtue of having a dick, he can hold himself to one personal standard and women to another.
Fellas, isn't it GREAT that you feel so entitled to withhold basic respect for a woman because she "gave it up to soon", while your own self-respect remains mysteriously, yet, tightly in tact? Isn't that just a genius way to judge other people?! I mean, sure the TWO of you engaged in this act TOGETHER, but magically THE WOMAN is somehow less worthy of basic respect because..she's a woman. AND SHE HAD SEX...EARLY!
Duh!
What is that bitch thinking anyway? I hope to GOD she doesn't think you- the king of all men- could muster up an ounce of respect for her after such a cheap encounter. I mean, you still have respect for yourself as a man because...um...because...err, why exactly do you have respect for yourself but none for her?
I'm lost.
Oh wait, I've got it. Because for women, pursuing sexual pleasure should come second to gaining the admiration and respect of men. As a matter of fact, our ultimate goal should be gaining the respect of hypocrites such as yourself! And that respect is FRAGILE. You, as man, believe you have the right to determine my worth based on how and when I express my sexuality. If I happen to express it "too soon", BOOM- there goes your respect out the window! Strange that you don't apply this logic to your own actions but hey- you're a man, you don't have to! It's do as you say, NOT as you do, right? You are always worthy of basic respect, (reverence even) regardless of how you behave sexually. I am not.
Got it.
The funny thing is. The men who live by this logic don't respect women PERIOD. After all, that would entail having respect for her regardless of what sort of sex schedule she operates on. That would entail, respecting her as a human being who has the right to act on the same impulses they act on. The men who abide by this logic though, have a major superiority complex and see women as fundamentally inferior. With men, who in no way see women as their equals, they feel they are entitled to "withhold" their respect from a woman who doesn't behave in the way THEY think she should. Usually this means, holding women to a standard they wouldn't dream of holding themselves to. Men like this conveniently use sex as an excuse for using and disrespecting women, but the root cause for their disrespect is misogyny, plain and simple.
Because honestly if you know you'll have a hard time respecting someone who has sex with you before you THINK they should, WHY ARE YOU HAVING SEX WITH THEM?
Ugh, double standard-y man-logic makes my head hurt.
Only a hypocritical jackass operates with this kind of fucked up logic right? Well, that hypocritical jackass of which we speak, happens to be pretty much our entire society and most of the men in it. Female sexual empowerment, at it's most basic level, is a threat and diminishes the sexual dominance of men.
Can't have that can we?
As a feminist and former sexpot, I'm going to make it my mission to bust the shit of anyone who promotes such vile double standards and woman-hating propaganda...be it in casual conversation, on the internet...where ever. I'm tired of women being slaves to chauvinistic standards with regard to sexuality. It results in self hate and repression, and no one benefits from it.
I'd rather act on some of my lustful urges (in the safest manner possible- protecting my health and emotions) and enjoy the resulting orgasms, than try to placate some sexist man, or worse, a sexist, hypocritical society that doesn't genuinely "respect" me deep down anyway.
At least the former has me living life on my own terms...something I definitely won't "GIVE UP" for anyone.
Mahogany Misfit - Wednesday, July 15, 2009 at 05:59PM - 21 said something... - filed under Sex, Women's Issues Email Article 
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Reader Comments (21)
*standing up and clapping*
You are so fucking awesome! I've always had issues with this double standard, from how men think they deserve medals for screwing dozens of women, and yet a woman that does that is labeled a slut/promiscuous. Changing this double standard is gonna be hard work, especially since most WOMEN have been programmed to think this way and use the labels to apply to themselves and other women. I"m going to have to post this on my blog...it's truly a brilliant piece. Thank you!
Hey Mahogany Misfit!
Thanks for the reply and welcome on your previous post. Please come check me out and join my blog.
As far is this post goes, "Giving It Up" definitly turns my stomach. It's degrading. You hear women say "I gave him some" OR "I ain't giving him none" -- WTF?? Sounds like a hood rat to me.
I'm very comfortable in my sexuality and I love my body, so in order for me to become involved with a man, I have to know he respects me. I mean, it can't be on some, he never disrespected me, so by the lack thereof means he does respect me. Uh Uh. I need to hear it, see it, and feel it.
I'm so happy I'm getting married to someone that I know loves me for who I am. I would hate to have to still be dating and looking through the herd of imbeciles out there. GROSS!
Vixen- Thanks girl….I feel like it just needed to be said. I'm tired of men judging us so harshly over these "standards" they've set for us that they themselves don't comply with. And the women co-signing this- instead of defending one another against the hypocritical, nonsensical patriarchy - also contributes to our degradation and represses us in an unnatural way.
Jenellybean- Honestly the way I feel about "having a man's respect" is that it's become completely inconsequential to my life. I have sex based on a good conversation, interest, chemistry, lust, etc. This is probably because for me, the concept of " having someone's respect" is such a gray area in general…how does one know they have the respect of another human being? I've seen men fake their way through 20 year marriages, never once having had "respect" for their wives, so how exactly can you quantify someone's respect? Also a better question for me would be, why does a man's fragile, often hypocritical concept of "respect", matter to women anyway? Like, why do we give a fuck? I don't see men basing their every action on whether or not women respect them….they live their lives how they see fit.
Personally, I think women need to have such an abundance of respect for themselves that the "respect" of men is unimportant. Male respect (especially the hypocritical kind) shouldn't affect how we as women feel about ourselves or how we conduct ourselves sexually.
Also, let me say one thing about the final part of your comment. One of the biggest annoyances for single women is when married or "about to be married" women (often referred to as "smug marrieds") tell us in a roundabout way they are SO glad not be on single (like us). Why is it annoying? Because behind the comment is an implication that our lives are somehow "less" because we don't have a husband or fiancée.
You're a new commenter and that may not have been your intention, but for more insight, please read this article and don't succumb to "smug married" syndrome! It's a trap!
Seriously though, humor aside, some of us have absolutely no desire to marry or even live with a man and may not envy your position either. If I were to come to your blog and say- "GOD I'm so happy not to be engaged and have to look at the same boring penis, attached to the same boring man every day, I'm so glad not to have some dude around making butt dents in my sofa round the clock, eating up all my food, having to endure the smell his farts under the sheets every damn night", etc.- that would probably be construed as condescending. Whether or not I'd want to live your life, YOU could be perfectly happy with your situation and resent my implication that somehow it must suck to be you.
Does that make sense? Hopefully it comes off the way I intend it to and not as an attack.
The bottom line is- I'm glad you are happy to be getting married, be glad for me that I'm single, free, and living exactly the life I want.
Love,
Me and all the other happily single women out there :-)
A hundred thanks to you for telling it like it needed to be told. This made me think differently about the words "giving it up" and now I can really see how saying that makes us seem like the weaker party-which as you stated, ain't always the case.
I remember reading something Steve Harvey said about "you as a woman can't do what I do as a man" and that is what I thought of when I read this. You talked about entitlement and that shit is really real. I can act up as a man but you need to keep theose legs closed. Typical male attitude. Really true when it comes to sex because they think that is where they should dominate. No woman should be having more sex than them. No woman should be getting HERS the way they get theirs. I am starting to wonder whether all men are like this on a subliminal level and just naturally think lesser of us, especially when we exhibit the behaviors they do. I feel that deep down a lot of them don't really want us to be their equal because that takes away their feeling of superiority and king-ness, as you mentioned.
Oh and reading thru the comments, smug marrieds deserves a personal post, do you take requests MM? LOL.
Funny cause most of the smug marrieds I USED to know are now not so smug divorced women and single moms taking care of kids alone. Don't pity us too much, half of marriages break up and you might be back in the fold before you know it. Ha-ha-ha-ha. I am just out of a relationship and living on my own and forgot how good it was to be SINGLE WITH CHOICES AND FREEDOM. You live and learn I guess but I am glad I never married right about now.
oh and LOLOL abt "smelling his farts under the sheets every night and butt dents in my sofa."
HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!
I'm going to have to advertise those perks to other women (mainly my soror sisters from my alma mater who are so marriage obssesed) now that I'm single again.
The difference is that men are expected to pursue sex for its own sake; the ‘pussy hound’ just does so in manner which suggests poor taste. The slut, on the other hand, is seen as irrational for making the same decisions.
Men are seen as “beasts” who are unable to control their “raging hormones” - which absolves them of guilt for “improper” sex, whereas women are seen as beings who have an innate ability to be virtuous and guarded with their sexuality and thus, have no "excuse" to have sex freely. It is implied that our sexual urges are not as strong as men's and also dictates that in the event they ARE as strong as men's, we should curtail them at whatever cost - even that of unhealthy repression - in order to prevent societal scorn.
Another critical issue is how our culture in general, promotes rampant sexuality in forms that hurts us all, and then demonizes it when women actually partake in the "forbidden fruit". Society suggests to us that we are vastly powerful in a sexual sense (as long as visually we are desirable and impossibly sexy to men), but then urges us to never take advantage of that sexual power (i.e. "give it up").
Essentially it's an unwinnable war for women who wish for freedom of sexual expression without judgment.
Hey Mahogany,
When I look at how I respect someone, I think of how highly esteemed I take this person to be or how much I value there self worth. I care for my body and do my best to keep for it like the temple of the Holy Spirit the Bible says it is. It's unimaginable in my mind that I can share this part of me with someone whom I don't value as a person, because I value myself and if they are to join me then they must to value themselves and me in the same way.
You can be a skeptic and speak with little faith and that is fine, but it's not hard to know when someone doesn't respect you. As you said respect can be a grey area, but there are many elements are black and white.
I agree with you when you say "women need to have such an abundance of respect for themselves that the "respect" of men is unimportant and shouldn't affect how we as women feel about ourselves", but you lost on the rest. Personally, I think this awareness and abundance of respect for yourself is exactly what women should use to conduct themselves sexually. It doesn't always have to be how he respects you, it can also be about how he respects himself.
Thanks for the article, I will check it out. You're right about it not being my intent to sound smug. I was posting my feelings and I felt that was okie. I didn't mean to make it seem like my status put me above others, I'm just very happy about it and speak highly of my situation because I have a big ego. LOL
What I like about blogging is that you don't have to agree with the person who's blog you're commenting on, just because its the right thing to do. So long as you're not rude, its not necessary to guard yourself to keep them happy. I especially appreciate you giving my comment the time to rebuttle and open my eyes to another perspective. I know my comments won't change your mind but they may influence you or some other woman reading your blog. And perhaps what you said to me will do the same.
Please come check out my blog!
Kellina- I don't know if I need to do a post on of smug marrieds as I don't know any in my personal life. LOL. Most of the people I know who are married have been hitched for several years and are anything but smug about it at this point...but maybe I'll solicit the readers for stories of their experiences with the smugly married crowd though!
Oh and don't EVEN get me started on Steve Harvey's chauvinistic ass. I am going to get around to posting a rant here about that sexist, POS book he is peddling to women.
"Think Like A Man"- my ass. I'm doing just fine thinking like a woman dickhead.
Can you tell I'm annoyed with him? :-)
Curious_Lit_Grrl- Very thoughtful insight, thank you for posting. I agree with your every point - except the last one- about this being an unwinnable war. Maybe it can't be won "collectively", (because the patriarchy will likely live on forever and attempt to oppress female sexuality until the end of time) but I think it CAN be won individually. As long as women make it known to people who support this propaganda that they aren't going to allow someone else's constraints to dictate their lives, and then FOLLOW through by being their authentic selves, they have most definitely won. Hell, I feel like a winner right now. :-)
JenellyBean- So, I'm concerned with some of what you're posting because, while I welcome everyone to share their opinions, the kind of comments I don't want are the "I conduct myself in this 'astute' way and cannot imagine why others would not follow suit", type of remarks. Self righteousness about one's way of life (along with preachy bible speak) are things I don't allow people to wildly display here so I want to be sure you understand where I'm coming from.
The thing about this post is, I am advocating for women to shun outside judgment and act on their sexuality as THEY see fit, instead of basing their sexual conduct on the standards and opinions of others. Whether they're overly guarded with their sexuality or overly free with it, is truly of no consequence to me. As long as they are acting on their own accord and not out of fear from what judgments others will impose upon them, I support them in whatever they choose.
When you state it is "unimaginable" to you that you would conduct yourself a certain way sexually, that can easily be interpreted as a judgment on those of us who don't operate in the same manner. The way you see and value "respect", might not mirror how I see or value it. While you may not be able to imagine that everyone doesn't share your sexual code of ethics, the fact is, many don't. It doesn't make them inferior to you and it doesn't make their way "the wrong way". There is a air of pontification in what you're posting and that can alienate people who may operate differently than you do.
By stating you know your comments won't "change my mind" but "they may influence me or some other women reading the blog", you are (in what appears to be self-aggrandizing way) suggesting that your viewpoint is the correct one and that you hope people are influenced accordingly. Stating that I may not agree with you and may be a "skeptic who speaks with little faith", appears to be patronizing me for not sharing your viewpoint. Patronization and condescension are not traits I allow to be displayed here so if I have misconstrued your comments, let me know.
Finally, while you're correct that you don't have to "agree" with the person whose blog you're commenting on, you do have to have some humility when you post here. In other words- constantly reminding people that you have a huge ego, being overly self-congratulatory and self-promotional in nature, being preachy, and giving off a vibe of self-righteousness are attributes that many people find to be grating (myself included).
It's possible you're unaware of all this so I want to make sure that as a guest of this blog, you have not only the benefit of the doubt, but some insight as well.
What a wonderful post! Thank you for this one. I grew up in India for most of my life and was raised Catholic to boot, so you can imagine what that did to my sense of sexuality for a very long time. Talk about a double whammy. Thankfully I have a brain and a LOT of self respect, so it didn't wreck much havoc on me. I'm not sure most of my peers were so lucky when it came to an abundance of self respect.
I had never heard the term "giving it up" until I moved to the US, but the sentiment behind it is very much alive in India too. Essentially, if you are born a male in India, you can fuck as many women as you want both before and sometimes after marriage. As a woman, you are only allowed to fuck your husband and only on his schedule and cater to his pleasure. Seem a bit stuck in the dark ages? Well, if you think about it, it's not so different here either. It's just phrased differently. :)
Personally, and this is just my POV, so feel free to disagree, I think that religion (pick one, it doesn't matter which one) goes a long way in construing sex in a bad light, but only for women. What really gets me, is that apart from two guys going at it, in a heterosexual situation there is a MAN and a woman! But there is never any shame for the man, it's all put on the woman. WTF? Maybe I'm biased when it comes to calling bullshit where religion and sex are concerned but I truly feel that is one part of the problem when it comes to misogyny as a whole.
Thanks again for the great post!
I am happy to find other women who think like me...and are willing to speak up about it. Here, here!
Mahogany Misfit,
If I post here in my own personality, I won't be welcomed?
I'll have to guard everything I say for fear of offending someong?
The things you said in this post are offensive to many, but this is part of blogging. Speaking your feeings, your thoughts, and your opinions. I like the fact that we dont feel the same way on the issues. It makes for good conversation, but I'm not attacking you.
Is it best I not return?
Serafina- Yes, you are right on about religion construing sex in a bad light for women. This is one of the many reasons I don't participate in religion at all. Don't even get me started on the other reasons, we'd be here all day.
Oh and I'm glad you gave some insight into the culture of India and how similar it is to the Western world regarding it's sexual shaming of women. This isn't related to the post but some of my former colleagues were sent to India to train employees...and when they came back to the states, they told us that men and women are not shown KISSING on TV- ever. It's deemed too racy. I found that to be totally amazingly odd!
SmartCookie- Thanks...that's the great thing about having a blog...drawing like-minded people together! ;-)
JenellyBean- Clearly there is a disconnect here.
When you ask "If I post here in my own personality, I won't be welcomed?", what does that mean exactly?
Does that mean that you expect to be able to come here (my personal blog) and post comments that I (the blog owner) find condescending, ego-centric, self-righteous, patronizing, etc., and that attack and undermine the basic message I am promoting? Are you under the impression that you have the right to post whatever you want on someone's personal blog, whether the blog owner likes it or not? Does "welcoming your personality" mean that you expect to come spout off things on my personal blog, that I (the blog owner), don't find useful to what I'm posting, and not have it addressed?
The answers to these questions will help me understand your position better.
Oh- if I thought it "best that you not return", I'd simply ban your IP address(es) from visiting this site again. At the present time, that isn't my intention.
Lastly, this being my personal blog (and one that I pay about $300 a year to maintain), whether or not anyone is offended by what I write is really of no consequence to me. Anyone taking offense is always free to leave. I pay to keep this blog up and running so that I can have my say, not to give others an opportunity to ride roughshod over my message and personal beliefs.
You bring up the fact that what I write may be offensive to others...is that some sort of a justification for what you're posting?
Again, the answers to these questions will help me gain a much better understanding of where the disconnect is.
Comment Deleted by Mahogany Misfit
Ed: Kellina, you're not helping honey.
Comment Deleted by Mahogany Misfit
Ed: Unrelated to the thread.
My bad MM. Just seemed ridiculous.
Kellina- It's fine girl.
I prefer to handle it another way. Usually when you ask people questions about what exactly they mean, it gets better results than sarcasm. Either that or they'll just deflect, which is fine too. I'd rather simply ASK, like is this really what you expect when you come to someone else's blog as a GUEST, knowing little about them or what they want from people who visit, etc....?
Hopefully, it gets them to ponder how they're coming across.
Blogs are very personal to the people who keep them and I've learned you have to treat people's blogs like their homes. It's not really a "take me as I am" type of deal. No, you either follow whatever "house rules" they set forth, or you GET OUT.
:-) LOL.
How fucked up does a man's self esteem have to be to think that there has to be something wrong and "cheap" about a woman if she deigns to have sex with him? "I can't respect a woman who would stoop to me"?!
I enjoyed reading this very passionate blog about the reality of a few of the many double standards that are denigrating to everyone.
E.g.
It is denigrating to men, because men are egotists in many aspects of life, and that many men do not have the perception or who are not willing to realise nor change the subconscious mentality that has been cultivated by many different factors. Other people who observe these men and their manner; will highly likely have the thoughts that you have...and are right to be frustrated (an understatement) at them.
As you have mentioned in your blog, it is denigrating to women, because many women should/do realise the situation, yet still many of these women rarely seem to resist and take a risk to come out and reveal what they think, which suggests to men that women are futile against them, and that they (men) still have the "upper hand".
When people listen to this, many people (mostly men, sadly) will disparage people from your views, by attacking the person who has these thoughts rather than face the reality and rebut the opinions with (hopefully) satisfactory, understandable comments and manner.
I wish more women thought like this! Honestly, I'm sick of people making me feel guilty because I don't adhere to a socially acceptable sexual timeline- apparently it makes you 'easy'. I've never really understood that term, personally. What's so great about being 'difficult', anyway? And the way people use the excuse 'he won't respect you'. What makes them think I actually CARE about the respect of a hypocritical moron like that anyway? If I can respect myself afterwards, then I don't see why they can't do the same.
I think this whole philosophy stems around the idea that the most important thing you have to offer a man is sex... sad.
I can say that most men eye a woman for sex. Even when a woman walks on road, she will be judged by so many male eyes for their figure, their assets and how well she can fit in to have sex with him.